Stiff upper lip 2/6-08: Oh baby, you annoy me
Sometimes I can get really annoyed with Pro Tools and DAWs in general. Unfortunately, sometimes it boils over and my feelings get much uglier than just regular annoyance.
A few weeks ago
For a few days I had been struggling completing mixes because of error messages, lost connections, and what-not’s. To me, this is the ultimate no-no in any application. I will not tolerate things like this to fuck up my workflow. I really tried understanding where the problem was because I felt that I used less plug-ins in my mixes than I had before, and possibly even less tracks. Not to mention no VI:s at all. Found nothing.
Time for some video editing in iMovie. For some reason my 003 refused to playback any sound when I did the previews. There was sound because the bounced movie played just fine. The scrubbing also worked. Hm, I suspect Quicktime issue, since my 003 never have been able to playback in Quicktime either (I just forget about it and use VLC instead, Quicktime is the Devils work anyway).
Another video thing. No editing or nothing, just bouncing a video with two or three tracks of sounds. No picture. WTF? Tried again with the secret settings enabled (hold all three modifiers when choosing “Bounce to Quicktime” for additional options). No sound. WTF? I think I did somewhere around 3-4 bounces and there was something wrong with all of them. Finally got one bounced correctly.
I finally broke when I went back to a mix and it just stopped the entire time. I was so pissed off that I decide to just leave Pro Tools a while and work a little in Logic (which I at this point hadn’t done for months). Working in Logic was a pain, remembering that it’s by no means perfect (certainly not with error messages) but mostly because I had forgotten about all the shortcuts and just tried to use the ones in Pro Tools which made all kinds of strange windows pop up in my face.
Gah… Death to DAWs. You suck.
Today (and yesterday, and the day before that)
Pro Tools is really testing my patience. I can’t believe how many buffer errors I’m getting. Yes, I’ve read this and that thread on DUC, yes I have done this and that. I’m running on Intel Macs dedicated for audio (well, and for blog posts like these) and I can’t believe how bad it’s performing. Even worse than these errors are loss of connection. It happens a lot, both in Pro Tools and outside. I actually couldn’t even watch a Youtube movie today (nothing else running) because the 003 kept losing connection.
Seriously, what the fuck gives? This is a - what? - €2k sound card that can’t even handle the most fundamental task of playing back a bloody Youtube movie? It’s beyond horrible.
I was going to do the final tests in the new de-essers shootout today but it will have to wait a little more because I’ll do my audio work in another app today. Logic, Live, Renoise, Tracktion, I don’t give a flying as long as it’s actually just running. Too bad I’ll have to go back and install them again. I removed them all when I found how great initially 7.4 was.
Unfortunately this unacceptable behavior isn’t limited to Digidesigns babies. Show me a stable DAW and I’ll jump to it in a heartbeat. I’ve never seen any type of application that fucks up as much as DAWs do. I’m seriously considering a hard disk recorder because I refuse to do work in an environment where the biggest obstacle is actually playing back and keeping that record button lit.
Digital Performer is rock solid. That is my general “go to” application. I like Logic too, but it can act up sometimes. DP never has issues.
ProTools…..well, it’s a lot better now with the 7.4.2pr…..but it was good with cs4 on my MacPro. Not so good on the iMac with cs4, it is better with the pr version.
By ericdano ~ June 2, 2008 kl 2:38 pm
I’ve used Digital Performer and tried to get into it but I could never grip it. People say it’s a lot like Pro Tools but it sure didn’t seem that way to me?
By stiff ~ June 2, 2008 kl 3:09 pm
Stiff I feel your pain, just when I thought I was done with my Pro Tools problems they started again. Can’t save sessions now without crashing. isn’t that delightful!?
By ~Jon~ ~ June 2, 2008 kl 3:13 pm
Oh man, that’s really ugly. Fortunately I don’t have those kind of issues. Is the automatic backup-thingie working?
By stiff ~ June 2, 2008 kl 3:19 pm
Hey Jon,
I had the same problem with Pro Tools crashing when trying to save. I solved it by deleting the Digidesign databases folder (wich I can’t remember where it is located since I don’t use Pro Tools anymore). I think there are quite a few problems that can be solved by deleting Digidesign databases and it won’t harm Pro Tools or your sessions in any way.
By Kingston ~ June 2, 2008 kl 3:33 pm
Absolutely right Kingston. And there’s a really easy way to do it - with this app:
http://www.protoolerblog.com/2007/03/18/kill-those-prefs/
By stiff ~ June 2, 2008 kl 3:35 pm
unfortunately trashing prefs and databases didn’t correct it for me.
Digidesign’s tech support utility is what I used: http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?langid=100&navid=54&itemid=25974
This may be linked to the Ohmicide beta and Transfuser beta, these are the only recent changes to my system, but then it could be just the one session thats fukd.
By ~Jon~ ~ June 2, 2008 kl 3:52 pm
Error messages, lost connections, and what-not’s.
I’m feeling your pain Stiff man.
These are my bug-bears too.
Yesterday, out of the blue, I ‘lost’ connection to my midi interface. The USB was ‘dead’. I know it works just fine — still works just fine (with 002R turned off) — but intermittently started to lose connection during a simple writing session. I trashed prefs et al and that seemed to help — for now…
Grrrrrr.
Anyway, back to you: Yeh, you’re 100% right — it is TOTALLY unacceptable. I can understand plugin issues etc, but not simple app / computer > interface issues!!!
Grrrrr.
By Mox ~ June 2, 2008 kl 7:11 pm
this IS interesting… why?
well, i, like protoolerblog, love pro tools. it’s the oldest, wisest kid on the bloc (oh, f***, here we go, analogies for digital excuses) but, if, you are like me, a pro tools die-hard, our patience has been tested. not by the nonsense regarding leopard, but by the audio engine that forms the basis of the digidesign monster. we know they’ve been biding their time, sorting it out in the background, giving us so-so hardware for LE and ridiculously large racks for HD, but it’s time to say it…
digi need to buy a rival right now, or suffer the consequences.
oh, sorry, i didn’t mean it. it just feel out…
zzzzzzz………..
By cheakypawl ~ June 2, 2008 kl 8:23 pm
i mean “fell” out
By cheakypawl ~ June 2, 2008 kl 8:26 pm
Digital Performer, the latest version 5, is really similar to ProTools I think. In fact, there is a window setting that sorta emulates ProTools.
By ericdano ~ June 3, 2008 kl 12:16 am
Thanks for all the comments people!
I’m not a coder, but how can the very basic tasks - such as recording and playing back - be such big issues? I might add that CPU usage (according to the meters and my knowledge of the plug-ins that are loaded) isn’t high at all. We’re talking below one third here. If I was pushing it I could understand it. if I was running anything else at the same time I could also have understood it. But this I don’t understand.
By stiff ~ June 3, 2008 kl 1:49 am
It’s frustrating. Something is awry.
Digi need to have their own computer hardware box. You turn it on, it works — always! Flawlessly! It’s connected to the internet and checks and downloads EVERYTHING ‘it’ needs to remain working at 100%.
Simple.
Grrrrr.
OT. I run Mac Pro, and even on small sessions with a few Didi plugs (Hybrid, Xpand etc.) I get the ‘Increase HW Buffer size message all the time) — it’s already at 1024! and my CPU usuage is like 5%.
Maybe more RAM…
By Mox ~ June 3, 2008 kl 2:13 am
Mox,
I’ve been toying with that idea as well. They’re already so computer specific with us, why not just sell us the computer too?
A general hw buffer msgs tip is to try decreasing it instead of increasing it. For me it often works better on 512 than 1024!
By stiff ~ June 3, 2008 kl 2:30 am
…Got the same problems. Plus Crimidesign made me look like a fool: I work on a G5 and 7.* without problems for some time. Adviced a PC friend to move to a mac pro because his PC struggled all the time. And now he is caught by the Leopard trap. Nothing works….. And the apple store refuses to sell a 10.4 version. I had to make use off some pretty illegal stuff to get his computer working again. But the first solution was to actually install XP…..
Man did I look like a fool!
By J~P ~ June 3, 2008 kl 4:45 am
Lately I have found that our pecees are much more stable and reliable than the macs. For about a few months I am very sad that we spent so much money for the shinny macs…
Before anyone will throw a stone on me, these are my observasions based on heavy work.
Tamas Dragon
By Tamas Dragon ~ June 3, 2008 kl 5:48 am
I’m not really surprised. People claiming Windows-based machines can’t be stable are just ignorant. Much of the hardware is better built too (yes, I’m still a Mac user
)
By stiff ~ June 3, 2008 kl 11:01 am
“And the apple store refuses to sell a 10.4 version”..
Man, I’d be pissed!
By stiff ~ June 3, 2008 kl 11:01 am
My biggest problem is is the fuk’n latency. Running a brand new mac pro with 8 gig ram and 4 SATA 250 gig drives. WTF, I have latency???? Almost 3 seconds everytime I hit apple/spacebar. Arghhhh. Wake up Digidesign, fix these issues!
By Paul Schaefer ~ June 3, 2008 kl 11:55 am
Oh yeah, been running protools for 7 years. Never seen latency problems like this (running 7.3 still). Ugh….
By Paul Schaefer ~ June 3, 2008 kl 11:57 am
I don’t even need to tell you how much I feel what you’re saying… You know me. Yes Digital Performer is rock solid and I worked with it, but it’s so complex to work with, it’s easy to make it “unstable” through human error. No, it’s nothing like pro tools - not even close.
By Jonathan Grand ~ June 3, 2008 kl 3:15 pm
Paul, you might want to check with other users who have the same problems if it’s still there in 7.4 or not.
By stiff ~ June 4, 2008 kl 2:26 am
Jonathan, yeah, I hear DP is supposedly stable. The most stable DAW I’ve ever used was Ableton Live, I think it went bananas with me once (then again, I’ve never made heavy mixes in it which is the real test!) but it’s just not optimal for my workflow and has a couple of deal breakers.
By stiff ~ June 4, 2008 kl 2:28 am
to solve issues like this you need to make the problem simpler…
ideally, reformat & reinstall everything
if you dont have time to do that then at least get a new drive
install a new OS on it & then ONLY PT - no third party shit
now see if its stable
if it isnt then either: 003, the mac or the drive/s are at fault…
have u scanned for bad sectors on all your drives?
those error emssages are often just a geuss by the OS or PT as to what went wrong..
you may have a drive on its way out or a USB port
or the 003 is actually in the process of dieing….
but you wont prove any of that with all that crud in your system
By me ~ June 4, 2008 kl 4:42 pm
“you may have a drive on its way out or a USB port
or the 003 is actually in the process of dieing….”
This is the problem — that these kind of things should NOT be the problem.
I buy a AUD$5000.00+ Mac Pro, a AUD$2500.00+ Digi 003 or 002R (whatever) then I expect that hardware to NOT die! This is BRAND NEW STUFF people!
There are always exceptions to the rule, I know, but in general, come on! — it’s a USB port, it’s an audio interface, it’s a hard drive — how long have these things been made for now. It’s not new technology!!!
Shit should work.
Grrrrrrr.
By Mox ~ June 4, 2008 kl 5:25 pm
There’s nothing wrong with Leopard, you know. From a developer point of view, it’s quite the best OS X there’s ever been. It’s Digidesign who suck. They can’t make their legacy software work properly. It’s totally their fault.
By joe ~ June 7, 2008 kl 2:03 pm
PT update for Leopard:
http://www.digidesign.com/index.cfm?navid=54&itemid=32909
By digidesign tech support ~ September 4, 2008 kl 7:33 pm
[...] might know that I can get a little annoyed with Pro Tools at times. Sometimes I try to get away from it for a while and work in other apps. A while back I [...]
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